[ISHMap-List] responding to list posts...gift of map of China

Sat May 10 20:51:03 CEST 2014

Alexey,

Thank you for posting this response. I was aware of some of it, in 
limited detail. I cannot imagine the gift itself was made to lecture 
China about its border history, but it is instructive as to what can 
happen with political circumstance and online reactions.

There was another article that got to some of what you mention: 
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/04/01/merkel_map_message_china . 
>From that piece:

"To be sure, the d'Anville map does not constitute a total contradiction 
of the Chinese government's version of history. In 1735, the year when 
the Qianlong Emperor began his six-decade reign, his Qing empire's 
military prowess was on the ascent. Qianlong quelled a rebellion by 
Muslims in the western region of Xinjiang, brought the Mongol tribes 
under closer rule, and appointed officials to oversee affairs in Tibet 
such as the selection of the Dalai Lama. In other words, Qianlong 
established the trappings of imperial control over these peripheral 
territories, which allowed later governments -- the Republic of China, 
then the current People's Republic of China -- to claim sovereignty. 
Maps published by Western countries in the 19th and early 20th centuries 
vary in their presentations of Tibet and Xinjiang, but the Dower map is 
certainly not alone in showing Xinjiang and Tibet as parts of the 
Chinese empire."

       Joel

On 5/10/14, 2:45 PM, Alexey Postnikov wrote:
> From:     postnikov at comtv.ru
>     Subject:     Re: [ISHMap-List] Maybe Heads of State Shouldn't Give 
> Maps as Presents (D'Anville map of China)
>
>     Date:     9 мая 2014 г. 18:19:11 GMT+04:00
>
>     To:     joel at theprimemeridian.com
>
> Dear Joel,
>
> As you might know, I dedicated more then 40 years of my life to 
> research on the history of the Russian-Chinese boundary formation. So 
> I know from original sources the real history of the Chinese Empire's 
> territorial expansion. So the D'Anville map of China is much more 
> objective then the modern Chinese history text books.
>
> I had published three books on this theme and a few papers, some of 
> them in English, and I became in a way a persona non grata with my 
> Chinese colleagues although they did not published anything opposing 
> my views.
>
> Please, find below some references on my publications.
>
> Постников А.В. История географического изучения и картографирования 
> Сибири и Дальнего Востока в XVII – начале XX века в связи с 
> формированием русско-китайской границы / Под общ. Ред. Б.В. Базарова. 
> – М.: ЛЕНАРД, 2014. 384 с. ISBN 978-5-9710-0699-2  (Postnikov A.V. 
> Istoriya geograficheskogo izucheniya i kartografirovaniya Sibiri i 
> Dal’nego Vostoka v XVII – nachale XX veka v svyazi s formirovaniem 
> russko-kitayskoy granitsy [A History of Geographical Exploration and 
> Mapping of Siberia and Far East (XVII – beginning of XX c.) connected 
> with the formation of the Russian Chinese Boundary]. Ed. B.V. Bazarov 
> (Moscow: LENARD, 2014) 284 pages)
>
> Постников А.В. Из истории первого английского посольства в Бутан и 
> Тибет (1774-1775 гг.): Джордж Богл и его «Меморандумы». – М.: 
> Международный центр Рерихов, ИИЕТ РАН, Мастер-Банк, 2012. – 512 с., 
> ил. (Postnikov A.V. On the History of the First British Embassy in 
> Bhutan and Tibet (1774-1775): George Bogle and His Memorandums. 
> (Moscow: International Center of the Roerichs, Master Bank, 2012), 512 
> pages, ISBN 978-5-86988-241-7.
>
> Postnikov A.V.  Skhvatka na “Kryshe Mira”: politiki, razvedchiki i 
> geografy v bor’be za Pamir v XIX veke.[New enlaged and improved 
> edition] (Moscow: “OOO ID RIPOL klassik, 2005), 512 p.,ill.:
> http://www.icr.su/upload/Postnikov.pdf
>
> Postnikov A.V.  Stanovlenie rubezhey Rossii v Tsentral’noy i Sredney 
> Azii (XVIII-XIX vv.) Rol’ istoriko-geograficheskikh issledovaniy i 
> kartografirovaniya. Monografiya v dokumentakh. [Russia’s boundaries 
> Formation in the Central Asia (XVIII-XIX centuries): Role of 
> Historical-Geographical Explorations and Cartography. Monography in 
> documents.  (Moscow: “Pamyatniki istoricheskoy mysli, 2007), 462 p., 
> 22 maps.
>
> Postnekove A.W. Afghanistan and The Pamir dispute. Translated by M. 
> Tahir Kani. (Münich: Verein sur Forderung der Afghanischen Kultur E.V, 
> [2005]) . [Translation into Pushtu of the book Postnikov A.V.  
> Skhvatka na “Kryshe Mira”.../next in this list/].
>
> Postnikov A.V.  Skhvatka na “Kryshe Mira”: politiki, razvedchiki i 
> geografy v bor’be za Pamir v XIX veke.[New enlaged and improved 
> edition] (Moscow: “OOO ID RIPOL klassik, 2005), 512 p.,ill.
> Postnikov A.V.  Skhvatka na “Kryshe Mira”: politiki, razvedchiki i 
> geografy v bor’be za Pamir v XIX veke (monografiya v dokumentakh). 
> (Moscow: “Pamyatniki istoricheskoy mysli, 2001), 416 p., 8 sheets of 
> maps.
>
> With best regards,
>
> Alexey
>
>
> Alexey V. Postnikov (Full Professor, Doctor of Science)
> Director "IMAGO MUNDI" International Journal on the History of 
> Cartography
> The Honorable Scientist of the Russian Federation
> Academician
> International Academy of the History of Science (Paris)
> Corresponding Member
> European Academy of Sciences (Brussels)
> Chief Research Fellow
> Russian Academy of Sciences'
> Institute of the History of Science and Technology
> address (office): 1/5 Staropansky St. Moscow 109012
> Russia
> address (home): 62, 21, 12, Novoslobodskaya Street, Moscow 127055
> Russia
> Phone: (7-499)-978-25-57 (home)
> Cell Phone:    (7-985)-361-90-42
> E-mail: apostnik at ihst.ru (office)
>          postnikov at comtv.ru (home)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 09.05.2014, at 18:29, Joel Kovarsky wrote:
>
>> I have received several private comments to my recent post (regarding 
>> map gifting to Chinese diplomats). They have all been private, and I 
>> am not comfortable making a decision to send those to the list. I 
>> would remind people that if there were any intent to facilitate 
>> online conversation with the group, use the "reply to all" button. 
>> Otherwise only the original poster will see the responses, as that is 
>> the default option.
>>
>>                  Joel Kovarsky
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lazarus.elte.hu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ishm
>

-- 
Joel Kovarsky
The Prime Meridian
1839 Clay Drive
Crozet, VA 22932 USA
http://www.theprimemeridian.com