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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">For those who do not have immediate
access to Woodward's work, this (relatively) short essay,
"Dillying and Dallying with Watermarks," also gets to the varied
problems with watermark analysis:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ihl.enssib.fr/en/paper-and-watermarks-as-bibliographical-evidence/dillying-and-dallying-with-watermarks">http://ihl.enssib.fr/en/paper-and-watermarks-as-bibliographical-evidence/dillying-and-dallying-with-watermarks</a>
. A short remark from that piece:<br>
<br>
"
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Nothing like watermarks exposes the fragilities of observation. It
is not gracious to say so (<i>so I’ll say it</i>), but few, if
any, scholars, even experienced bibliographers, can be trusted to
observe paper in general and watermarks in particular with any
degree of reliability or accuracy."<br>
<br>
Joel Kovarsky<br>
<br>
On 6/29/14, 4:34 PM, C Delano-Smith wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:B406B547D5774631B541C9CDD772FC9A@Desktop"
type="cite">I'm entering this exchange rather late, so my comment
may be repeating what has been said or is in some other way
gratuitous. If so my apologies. But have you looked at David
Woodward's comments (and warnings) on watermarks in his Panizzi
Lecture of 1995? Published as *Maps as Prints in the Italian
Renaissance. Makers, Distributors & Consumers* (British
Library, 1996), 61-64. Short but pertinent and pithy.
<br>
<br>
Catherine Delano-Smith
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- From: Joel Kovarsky
<br>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 9:07 PM
<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ishm@lazarus.elte.hu">ishm@lazarus.elte.hu</a>
<br>
Subject: Re: [ISHMap-List] Distinguishing between loose leaf maps
from 1513 and 1520 Ptolemy
<br>
<br>
Although not singularly applicable to your Holy Land Map, it
sounds like
<br>
there can be watermark variation even within a single atlas issue:
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://cool.conservation-us.org/coolaic/sg/bpg/annual/v30/bp30-01.pdf">http://cool.conservation-us.org/coolaic/sg/bpg/annual/v30/bp30-01.pdf</a>
.
<br>
Perhaps Chet van Duzer has some knowledge of this situation, given
his
<br>
remarks. The link I cite calls into question the presumption
concerning
<br>
utilization of a single source of paper.
<br>
<br>
Joel Kovarsky
<br>
<br>
On 6/29/14, 2:10 PM, Ron Hekier wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Many thanks to those that approached me
off the list. I provide
<br>
their responses below for the benefit of the group and future
visitors
<br>
to the mailing list.
<br>
<br>
In my opinion the investigation of watermarks holds great
promise for
<br>
identifying maps from early atlases, presuming that the early
atlases
<br>
were printed in relatively low numbers and utilized only one
source of
<br>
paper.
<br>
<br>
My copy of the Holy Land map reportedly from the 1513 atlas and
not
<br>
the 1520 atlas has a watermark that appears similar to a
fleur-de-lis.
<br>
<br>
An image of the watermark on my map can be found at
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://i.imgur.com/KySYgPN.jpg">http://i.imgur.com/KySYgPN.jpg</a>
<br>
<br>
On a related note, there are two other Ptolemy atlases for which
loose
<br>
leaf maps are difficult to distinguish. Those of the 1482 and
the
<br>
1486 atlases.
<br>
<br>
On my Holy Land map purportedly from 1486, I find a watermark
that
<br>
appears to be a daisy.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Below I append the helpful comments I received via email.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Is the paper watermarked - that may give you a decision one way
or the other
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tom O'Loughlin
<br>
<br>
<br>
--------------------
<br>
<br>
<br>
With regard to your posting on ISHM regarding the 1513 and 1520
<br>
<br>
Ptolemys, may I ask whether your map is hand-colored? If so, I
may be
<br>
<br>
able to shed some light on it, as I am engaged in a study of the
<br>
<br>
coloring in hand-colored copies of the 1513 Ptolemy.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best wishes,
<br>
<br>
<br>
Chet Van Duzer
<br>
<br>
<br>
--------------------
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Ron Hekier,
<br>
<br>
<br>
In Nordenskiöld´s collection there are only two maps of that
edition
<br>
in Doria database.
<br>
<br>
We have the edition in the National Library of Finland.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Here is the link of two leafs.
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://oa.doria.fi/handle/10024/84457">https://oa.doria.fi/handle/10024/84457</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sincerely
<br>
<br>
Anna-Maija Pietilä-Ventelä
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
ISHM mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ISHM@lazarus.elte.hu">ISHM@lazarus.elte.hu</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lazarus.elte.hu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ishm">http://lazarus.elte.hu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ishm</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Joel Kovarsky
The Prime Meridian
1839 Clay Drive
Crozet, VA 22932 USA
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.theprimemeridian.com">http://www.theprimemeridian.com</a>
Phone: 434-823-5696</pre>
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